Laser or spirit level? –
An interview with Nicola Parrotta and Carsten Smith from the company Fliesen Smith

“We got most of our orders through recommendations. Now we also have a solid customer base,” says Carsten Smith, whose father Michael founded Fliesen Smith in 1992. “Fundamentally, the tilers do a great job and word gets around. And, of course, quality tools, such as lasers and spirit levels from STABILA, play a decisive role in this.”

Twenty employees. Nicola Parrotta says that this is about average for a tiling company. As the sister of the company’s founder, she also works at the company. “This number of employees allows us to also take on larger constructions projects, but the company still has a family feel and is still manageable. Of course, there are teams of two who like to work together, but actually all of us are happy to work with one another,” she says.

Michael Smith first worked for many years as a tiler before completing his examination to become a master craftsman in North Rhine-Westphalia in 1992 with the best results in his year. He went on to successfully set up his own company. After just six months, Fliesen Smith was in a position to employ its first tiler and the company had reached the size that it is now ten years later.

Twenty employees. This number of employees allows us to also take on larger constructions projects, but the company still has a family feel and is still manageable.
Fliesen Smith

The shortage of skilled labour in the trades sector is a big topic. How do you find qualified apprentices?

Carsten Smith: We receive a lot of speculative applications and can cover a large proportion of the staff we require with these. Apprentices and trainees who like the idea of a career in tiling are also put through to us via the employment agency and Chamber of Crafts campaigns.

Tiling is a nice career, I think. I started my apprenticeship at 16 and at 21 I was already doing my qualification to become a master craftsman. For a while, you could set up your own business without having that qualification, but it is a requirement now. To me, that makes sense because you need a lot of expert knowledge and have to adhere to many DIN standards and so on.

How long is a tiling apprenticeship?

How long is a tiling apprenticeship?

Carsten Smith: As usual, the apprenticeship lasts for three years, but you can shorten it to two and a half years if you perform well.

The apprenticeship is organised by the Chamber of Crafts and takes place in schools, technical training centres and in companies. In technical training centres, beginners can lay their first tiles in special practice rooms. Unfortunately, it is not possible to start like that on a building site.

Apprentices come to the building sites in the first year, but they are introduced to the process slowly and start by performing small tasks, such as cutting or grouting. Of course, it depends on how good the apprentice is. Some can work alone immediately after the apprenticeship, but some need another year or two before they are at that stage.

How are your tiler teams put together?

How are your tiler teams put together?

Nicola Parrotta: That depends on the construction project. The teams are grouped up depending on the circumstances. Important factors used as the basis for setting up the teams include the size of the project and the work required. We also always look at who has to do what on the building site. If, for example, the ground has to dry first, we take the worker away from the building site and get them to work on another. Our employees are very flexible with this.

For a number of years now, we have also had a driver to take supplies to the building sites. This means that the tilers can concentrate fully on their work without having to worry about procuring materials like tile adhesive or the tiles themselves. This saves a lot of time.

Do the employees work very independently or are they monitored?

Nicola Parrotta: We trust our employees completely. Nevertheless, of course, my brother Michael goes to the building sites every day to look at the work and speak to the staff. They discuss changes to the work or any other problems. I do not know if the employees really see this as being monitored. But Michael does certainly look at the quality of the work and materials. After all, it is his and the company’s responsibility if something is not right.

Quality tools are essential to being able to deliver perfect results. Do you use lasers or spirit levels?

Carsten Smith: For small areas in a bathroom, it is not worth setting up a laser. If, for example, you only have to lay tiles in the shower area, you can just use a spirit level. However, it makes sense to use a laser if the bathroom is a bit bigger, because then you can use the laser line and work directly on it. If you draw a line with a spirit level in large areas, you often find you are not where you need to be (laughs). In this scenario, the laser is a very practical solution.

Do you prefer green or red lasers?

Carsten Smith: People always say that green lasers are better because the human eye can detect the colour more easily and that makes the laser line sharper. That is why I bought a green laser and I am very happy with it, but I have not yet had a red laser so I cannot compare them.

Some tilers work with the tile directly on the laser line. Is that how you work?

Carsten Smith: That is what we do for small tiles that you can lay from top to bottom, so those that are 20 x 20 cm up to approx. 20 x 25 cm. However, most customers prefer larger tiles these days. The smallest common size now is 30 x 60 cm and you do not usually lay tiles in this size from top to bottom, because their weight would cause them to slip down. Large tiles are laid from the bottom upwards. You start with the first row, create the line at 30 cm and then set a laser on it. You use a wedge to hold the tiles in place at the bottom and then work upwards.

Some tilers work with the tile directly on the laser line. Is that how you work?
You mentioned the trend for larger sizes. Are large tiles easier or more difficult to lay than small tiles?

You mentioned the trend for larger sizes. Are large tiles easier or more difficult to lay than small tiles?

Carsten Smith: Large tiles are definitely more difficult to work with. Many customers think that large tiles are easier and quicker to lay, but actually the exact opposite is true. For example, it is best to measure two or three times, because cutting a large tile is much more irritating than with a small tile of 20 x 20 cm. And when it comes to the really large tiles, which can be as large as 1 x 3 m, you need at least two people. You cannot lay this size of tile alone.

The correct angle is very important, especially for the larger sizes. How do you align the tiles?

Carsten Smith: First of all, one row is usually laid on the floor and then roughly measured. You look at how the angle of the row fits with the other walls, ideally using a laser. You can set a right angle and measure the apartment or room out directly. So, using a laser is perfect for work on the floor, but for walls we usually only use a laser for the first row. Then everything is done with wedges. You can see if a joint is 2 to 3 mm. The rows are checked with a spirit level every now and again, but if you have aligned the first row very precisely using a laser, there is not a lot that can go wrong.

Do you also use laser distance measurers when making your calculations? Or do you use data from architects?

So the spirit level is the most important tool?

Carsten Smith: Usually, yes. The spirit level length that we use depends largely on the size of the bathroom. We usually use spirit levels with a length of 60, 80 and 120 cm, which are the most common sizes. At most, the 200 cm spirit level is used to check the flatness of the walls.

Do you also use laser distance measurers when making your calculations? Or do you use data from architects?

Carsten Smith: We still take the measurements ourselves. Everything is remeasured precisely and checked. For larger projects, that is a lot of work, but the data can be transferred digitally and immediately using laser distance measurers. My father still uses paper and pencil. That is probably a generational thing, the old school method (laughs).

“Having a good eye and having fun at work are also very important. It is also about accuracy and neatness, especially in our profession. The building site must always be tidy. Tiling is an end product and you cannot use tricks to get by.”

(Carsten Smith)

The work not only depends on the tools but also the tiler, is that right?

Carsten Smith: I think every tradesperson needs a certain level of dexterity and skill. Having a good eye and having fun at work are also very important. It is also about accuracy and neatness, especially in our profession. The building site must always be tidy. Tiling is an end product and you cannot use tricks to get by.

Michael Smith founded the company 30 years ago and made it successful. What is his secret?

Nicola Parrotta: Michael is very ambitious and meticulous. He pays attention to every detail. He never rejects smaller jobs, even now that Fliesen Smith is a larger company. We always try to make our customers happy.

Michael also really enjoys his work. He does a lot on his own, such as creating quotes, taking measurements and issuing invoices. At the moment, he is teaching Carsten how to manage the company so that he can step back a little at some point.

Thank you very much for this fascinating interview!